Interest in real estate degrees speeds up


 April 28, 2008 06:19PM By Kerri Linden
Students from MIT's Center for Real Estate on a trip to Dubai.


Housing prices in many domestic markets may be cooling, but interest in real estate education remains hot. An industry that has always been welcoming of dilettantes and the ladies-who-lunch set is maturing and is creating demands for more trained professionals.

An informal survey of both undergraduate and graduate real estate university programs around the country reveals that despite a softening in many housing markets, interest from students is growing slightly, and the real estate profession is taking heed.

"It's become a destination career," said Esther Muller, co-founder of New York City's Real Estate Academy. "People are beginning to plan to go into real estate, gaining master's degrees and taking more courses. There's a trend toward making real estate a very serious, respectable profession."

About 5 percent of undergraduate students at Wharton, the business school at the University of Pennsylvania, choose to concentrate on real estate. An in-house survey done in 2007 shows that among those, 88.5 percent were employed full time upon graduation, with an average salary of $59,960.

The salary was virtually the same for undergrads focusing on real estate at the Stern School of Business at New York University.

According to officials at Wharton's career services office, many of its real estate alums, both undergraduates and graduate students alike, end up in New York City, where they work on the financial side of the business.

The magazine U.S. News & World Report ranks real estate programs around the country, focusing mainly on undergraduate studies. According to the magazine's survey, the top three university-level real estate programs in the country are at Wharton, the University of Wisconsin at Madison, and the Terry College of Business at the University of Georgia.

New York University's Stern School comes in fourth.

On the graduate level, meanwhile, there are now about 35 stand-alone programs in real estate studies. NYU currently has about 440 students enrolled in its Masters of Real Estate program, and another 170 studying for a graduate certificate in Real Estate. Many of these students attend part time while holding down jobs within the industry.

According to university officials, admittance to these programs is quite competitive. At MIT, the real estate program admits fewer than 40 students each year, out of an applicant pool of about 150; many students already have six to eight years of experience in the field.

The selectivity reflects the fact that real estate jobs can be even more lucrative with a master's-level education.

Surveys of MIT alumni indicate that the degree helps them improve their salary by about 25 to 30 percent, to about $100,000, within a year of graduation.

A survey of the past three years' worth of students graduating with a master's degree from NYU's Real Estate Institute, an institution separate from the Stern School of Business, indicated an average salary of about $138,000.

Among the graduate-level real estate programs, based on factors like rigorous admittance standards, the credentials of professors and post-graduation salaries, the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Cornell and NYU are considered leaders.

The programs emphasize that they can cover real estate better than an MBA with a stronger focus. "The real estate field is so rich today, and we're creating new target slots to develop in," said Jack Nyman, director of the Steven L. Newman Real Estate Institute at Baruch College. (The Steven L. Newman Institute offers certificates in real estate as part of Baruch's continuing education program.) "The field offers almost limitless opportunities for learning, creativity and opportunity."

That view is echoed by officials at MIT.

"We tell prospective students that if they're interested in business, then they should get an MBA, because it's more flexible, but if they want a high-powered and rigorous grounding in real estate, they should come to MIT," said Marion Cunningham, managing director of the program. "We train people to understand the real estate industry."

While each of these programs concentrates on fundamentals like finance, asset management and development, differences emerge. For instance, Baruch and NYU have strong ties with the city's development community, and their graduates are snapped up by firms based in New York.

An interesting feature of the MIT program is its international outlook. Recent class outings have included trips to the Middle East and Asia; while many students remain in the U.S. post-graduation, graduates are often offered jobs by foreign developers.

"Most real estate development right now is happening outside the United States, and in some places in Asia, whole cities are being built," said Cunningham. "It's not only about seeing opportunities abroad, but how the scale of projects abroad is impacting the cost of materials and development in the U.S."

While few real estate development firms are big enough to have regular yearly recruiting drives, when they seek to hire, an increasing number of firms are turning to universities for talent. This is seen as a victory for schools that invested in specialized concentrations in real estate, proof that they are beginning to yield results.

"In a field like sustainability, the compensation is just starting, but it will be worth more in time," said Nyman. "Real estate always will have deals; there's always a need for expertise. The better you are, the more you're going to make: That's an old adage that still remains true."


Comments

Anonymous

True, but with an East Coast bias. What about USC?

Comment #1 Posted By: Anonymous 05/09/08

Anonymous

I concur that leaving USC out of this article is absurd as they have one of the top real estate programs in the world. The salary numbers for the MBA programs listed were completely wrong and over even average salary + bonus. The NYU "survey" isn't sourced and is extremely dubious. NYU grads don't make more than those from USC, Cornell, MIT or Columbia and those NYU MSRE "salary" numbers are way above everyone - include Harvard/Stanford/Wharton MBA's. Someone needs to back and do some real research next time. Start with US News and Business Weeks MBA rankings.

Comment #2 Posted By: Anonymous 05/17/08

Anonymous

I concur with the others. USC should be included and while I don't know much about compensation for real estate degrees I do know that the MBA numbers are flat out wrong.

Comment #3 Posted By: Anonymous 05/17/08

Anonymous

Columbia University gets over 5000 applications. Best programs are Columbia, MIT and USC bar none.

Comment #4 Posted By: Anonymous 05/19/08

Anonymous

Here we go ,, go go gagets.............. gooooooooooooo

Comment #5 Posted By: Anonymous 05/19/08

richard

i need a CONVENTIONAL constructuion loan for 9 million dollars--in Mahhattan the plans, specs and permits have all been completed--full documentation

Comment #6 Posted By: richard 05/19/08

Anonymous

This article shows lack of research/study obviously. They are missing Columbia MSRED program which is a very popular/competitive one.

Comment #7 Posted By: Anonymous 05/20/08

Anonymous

*Cough* NYU plant *Cough* Clearly, there is a bias against Columbia and USC in this article. Either that or the writer is just misinformed...most likely both. NYU MSRE has relatively low admission standards compared to Columbia, MIT and USC's real estate programs. These programs are generally heralded as the best in the country. Cornell and Baruch also have great Master's programs, although they are not as well known as the others. Not to take away anything from NYU's program (because it is a great program) but when writing an article about Real Estate education, it's necessary to convey the various options available.

Comment #8 Posted By: Anonymous 05/21/08

Current NYU REI Student

First, the salary numbers in the article are wrong. For NYU the average is misleading because there are so many people in the program with different experience levels and backgrounds. The true avg of someone with 3-5 years of experience and an MS should be $90K+20k bonus, on the east coast. USC, Cornell & Johns Hopkins should have been given more exposure in the article. About the NYU program; NYU program is less competitive than Columbia but it is more thorough; its more credits, better flexibility and better connected faculty. Having said that the program has some serious downfalls. The program is too big and quality control is seriously lacking. You have kids from Jones Lang Lasalle and real estate IB firms sitting next to undergrads who are 1 year out of school and 35+ year folks who seek a career change from unrelated professions; awkward mix to say the least. NYU resources are great but the RE institute (for the money it charges) gives back very little to students. We have a RE library that will not lend books, has decor from 1970’s and can accommodate only ~30 people from a class of 600+. We have Argus on pcs but are not allowed to use them. Labs are only open 1-2 hours every other day. The academic advisors are less than cooperative and frankly rude. Most administrative departments here sit in walled offices behind moats of red tape. Career services are a joke. Teaching quality and consistency are also lacking. Most professors are amazing. Others plain suck. The program itself is probably one of the best in the country in terms of real estate finance. The administration of the program is hands down, one of the worst. There are still pleant of brilliant kids in the program that will get $130k+ jobs. The weak ones that the school let in out of greed, will be left to fend for themselves-they dont know that yet and think the NYU name will work wonders, it will not. NYU REI Networking is great. Most students get to know each other and go out of their way to help each other out. Most of the activities that benefit students are ACTUALLY planned and arranged by students. This is def not a program for those who want to be spoon fed.

Comment #9 Posted By: Current NYU REI Student 05/26/08

Anonymous

Thats is also what i hear about NYU; great program, poor quality control and administration. Columbia is more development focused and is a shorter program. More selective.

Comment #10 Posted By: Anonymous 05/28/08

Anonymous

Agreed, to leave Columbia and USC out of this article shows the writer didn't do his homework. Ask anyone in the real estate industry that is high up and they'll tell you Columbia, MIT and USC are the leaders with NYU's being popular but a little less selective due to the 'certificate' options available to get into the program.

Comment #11 Posted By: Anonymous 05/28/08

Anonymous

Thank you for all of your comments. It was very helpful in helping me decide what my options are. I just applyed to the NYU graduate certificate program. I am very excited about it. But now that I have read the comments, I think I am going to finish my certificate and head over to Columbia for the MS degree. This way I can get a more well rounded education from two of the best university's in NYC. Thanks guys.

Comment #12 Posted By: Anonymous 05/29/08

REI student # 2

The NYU Program, like New York City, is what you make of it. Criticisms of the NYU program are valid on many fronts but this is still one of the "top three" programs in the country for real estate. I do hear complaints, some of which i think are a result of growing pains the program is experiencing. But overall, the quality of the education you walk away with is worth the 'administrative' inconveniences. If you are serious about real estate, come to NYU.

Comment #13 Posted By: REI student # 2 05/30/08

RE Lawyer

Many of the criticisms of NYU listed in Current NYU REI Student's comments are ones typical of any large university faculty. The fact is NYU opens doors in New York City, as does Columbia.

Comment #14 Posted By: RE Lawyer 06/10/08

REIT_Street2007

I researched these school before deciding to table it for a year or two to get my money up and go f/t. Columbia's program is relegated to development and is only one year or two semesters while NYU's is 4 semesters with graduate thesis and has a focused finance degree concentration. Cornell looked good as well for finance but is far flung upstate and lacks the finger on the pulse connectivity that NYU has with its industry roundtables and monthly state of real estate publications and sister school elective options. For finance degree aimed at real estate it seems like the best option for me.

Comment #15 Posted By: REIT_Street2007 06/16/08

Anonymous

Google REI NYU - they were just given a $10 million capital and infrastructure improvement grant. It would be foolish not to be long on that degree relative to its East Coast peer group.

Comment #16 Posted By: Anonymous 06/16/08

Anonymous

RE Masters programs to consider: USC, University of Denver, Arizona State University, Johns Hopkins, Cornell, Columbia & MIT. All of these schools have received high marks for their programs and have successfully placed graduates. I've been researching the programs for the past year.

Comment #17 Posted By: Anonymous 06/23/08

Ross_RealEstate

In light of the flagrant Columbia trolling, I though I would weigh in on the discussion. Real Estate is a notoriously insular business and NYC Real Estate is exponentially more so. A powerhouse real estate master's program has to impart real world skill both qualitatively and quantitatively, provide industry connectivity and be a crucible for classmates to form synergistic future relationships. NYU's program unlike Columbia has an extensive, comprehensive, very well respected Finance concentration and is not soely a development program; NYU has monthly lectures on campus where students, industry professionals and their leaders discuss current and prospective trends in the market. The results of which are often quotes in the trades. Due to its part-time option and the fact that many industry employers send/pay for their employees to attend the program, NYU students are working in a team setting with other WORKING industry professionals which allows them to network within the industry on a daily basis. Columbia's program is made up of full time students with a strong percentage of them being from foreign countries - meaning contact/network drain at graduation.

Comment #18 Posted By: Ross_RealEstate 06/27/08

Anonymous

NYU's MSRE starting salary was 138k over MIT's 100k because: a) Many students in the NYU program already hold JDs, MBAs, CPAs, CFAs, etc. and/or were being promoted past the glass real estate ceiling within their own companies. b) The majority of the NYU grads are working in Manhattan and surrounding areas which commands an overall higher income level commensurate with cost of living increases.

Comment #19 Posted By: Anonymous 06/27/08

Anonymous

Columbia WAIVES their GMAT requirement if you have worked for 2 years and has only cursory finance classes unlike some of its peers. RD stop these Columbia and MIT trolls.

Comment #20 Posted By: Anonymous 07/17/08

Busted911

The Troll incessantly bashing on NYU is a guy named Phear_Me under a series of made up handles/Ids; throughout the Net. He is some wannabe insecure prestige whore who went to a low level MBA program and is going to MIT for an MSRED. He pathetically feels the need to bash schools like NYU to make his degree look better. We are all onto you buddy. I have read a thread specifically about you. Stop trolling for MIT and USC, we know who you are and what you are doing. Look him up on Businessweek and Cyburbia to name a few sites where he has adopted numerous handles to defame a host of schools, including NYU. Stop it troll.

Comment #21 Posted By: Busted911 07/21/08

Anonymous

I think that this discussion board began with some unbiased and informative comments about the different options for a real estate education, but now it seems like an all-out brawl to place NYU at the top of all programs. Specifically, i'm aiming this at Ross_Real Estate's post#17. "NYU's program unlike Columbia has an extensive, comprehensive, very well respected Finance concentration and is not soely a development program" NYU has an excellent real estate finance concentration and that is far and away its strong suit. However, the Columbia MSRED, despite being a development-focused degree, provides a grounded finance base with the option of taking two advanced real estate finance courses as part of the program, as well as the option of taking two elective courses at Columbia Business School, including courses in real estate capital markets. In addition, there are optional weekly real estate finance and excel modeling tutorials that are personalized for students that need additional help in these areas. Don't make it seem as though Columbia does not provide a comprehensive finance base. All the opportunities are there for its students. "NYU has monthly lectures on campus where students, industry professionals and their leaders discuss current and prospective trends in the market. The results of which are often quotes in the trades." Columbia has weekly lunchbox lectures and real estate roundtables bringing together some of the top real estate professionals in the industry. Don't assume that NYU is the only institution providing these events to its students. "Due to its part-time option and the fact that many industry employers send/pay for their employees to attend the program, NYU students are working in a team setting with other WORKING industry professionals which allows them to network within the industry on a daily basis. Columbia's program is made up of full time students with a strong percentage of them being from foreign countries - meaning contact/network drain at graduation." It is true that NYU provides a lot of flexibility to work and study with its part-time option. This is a great advantage of the NYU program. Columbia is only a full-time program with less than 100 students per class. One could argue that because NYU has such a large student body, the majority of whom are part-time, this may hinder the development of close relationships with your peers. Columbia has a very tight-knit group of students, each of whom come in with industry experience beforehand, and place their work on hold to grow and learn from the experience and from each other. Alumni networking is strong among Columbia alumni because of the fact that these small class sizes provided a very meaningful MSRED experience. It should also be noted that typically atleast 70% of the student body ends up in NY. I hope you didn't find this post to be an attack on the NYU program because I did not intend it to be. I truly think NYU has a great program. I just don't like when someone praises an institution at the expense of another, especially when that person is misinformed with regards to the quality of the instituion he is belittling.

Comment #22 Posted By: Anonymous 07/21/08

Anonymous

I agree, both NYU's and Columbia's programs are excellent (and have produced many industry leaders) and there is a great deal of reciprocity between these two NYC schools in terms of social gatherings, joint roundtables, etc. The "all-out brawling" referred to by # 21 is simply fraternal angst and not true acrimony or anything insidious. Everyone just needs to relax and remember that those coming out of these schools are actually MSRE brethren (and should seek synergies) in a world that has traditionally thought an MBA is the only valid post grad business degree (which I think was the underlying theme of the above article).

Comment #23 Posted By: Anonymous 07/24/08

Anonymous

My peers and mentor consistently tell me that MIT is by far the best program in the country, if not the world. However, USC, Cornell, Columbia and to some extent NYU all have top programs as well. What we all really need is an objective ranking system especially with so many new programs sprouting up. Is there any resource that ranks graduate real estate programs?

Comment #24 Posted By: Anonymous 07/25/08

Current Columbia MSRED

Columbia is an Ivy league school with selective admissions and world class faculty. NYU has no credibility because for every smart student in class there are 3 unintelligent students and 2 taking up space to get a "certificate" in real estate. NYU keeps banking on its association with the Stern school of business but the TRUTH is that NYU real estate students cannot even take classes at Stern because they would obviously fail and Stern doesn't want to clunk up its program with a bunch of poorly qualified real estate students. The reason Stern sends students to the real estate program for real estate electives is because it's cost effective and they can inflate their real estate course list that way. A smart person can succeed in an easy course, but the fact that Stern courses are barred from real estate students says there is a clear difference in quality. That difference is why I chose Columbia over NYU. Columbia is easily the superior choice.

Comment #25 Posted By: Current Columbia MSRED 07/25/08

MSREDbwthelines

The NYU Columbia flame war continues obviously unabated. To # 24: I am a current NYU REI Master's student and have taken two electives at Stern for what it is worth. The normal elective as well as an elective given for the accounting class that I was waived out of bc of my CPA/CFA background/charter. I received a B+ and an A- in those classes. This is not argumentative conjecture, but a substantiated fact. If you are going to "troll" for Columbia, at least have the foresight to pick a credible subject matter. The intellectual quality and moral fiber of your posting, if you really are Columbia MSRED student, speaks volumes on the "selectivity" of its program.

Comment #26 Posted By: MSREDbwthelines 07/26/08

Anonymous

---> 23/24 Looks like Phear_Me "the Menance of MIT" is back at it again people.

Comment #27 Posted By: Anonymous 07/26/08

Anonymous

Q: Why are we having this debate, When: A: Columbia: 1) Is an IVY LEAGUE SCHOOL (Halo Effect of conferred to all degree holders; heuristic of intellgence and capability on your resume) 2) Its program is the ''pride and joy'' of the school's new program initiatives [see its literature of site] 3) Has the most selective, rigorous admission process in the country, more than Harvard's school of design, MIT, USC, etc... 4) Is a full year of rigorous academic testing and standards with a thesis.

Comment #28 Posted By: Anonymous 07/26/08

Anonymous

Columbia doesn't have the most selective and rigorous admission process. It doesn't even require the GMAT! At least NYU requires it for SOME of its candidates. To be frank, the most selective real estate program in new york is Cornell. It may not be the best, but it is certainly the most selective. Harvard, MIT, USC, and Cornell are all about equal for selectivity.

Comment #29 Posted By: Anonymous 07/27/08

Trollz_R_Us

#29: Phear_Me is trolling again for MIT and USC. Your embedded IP address does not lie.

Comment #30 Posted By: Trollz_R_Us 07/27/08

Anonymous

INTERESTING THAT MOST NYU AND COLUMBIA MSRED GRADUATES TAKE THE CONSTRUCTION, MANAGEMENT AND ZONING COURSES THAT ARE OFFERED AT NYREI.

Comment #31 Posted By: Anonymous 07/28/08

ColumbiaMS2009

Please clarify, what does that mean no. 31?

Comment #32 Posted By: ColumbiaMS2009 07/28/08

ColumbiaMS2009

I reiterate: Q: Why are we having this debate, When: A: Columbia: 1) Is the NYC IVY LEAGUE SCHOOL (Halo Effect of conferred to all degree holders; heuristic of intellgence and capability on your resume) 2) Its program is the ''pride and joy'' of *ALL* the school's new program initiatives [see its literature of site] 3) Has the MOST selective, rigorous admission process in the country, more than Harvard's school of design, MIT, USC, etc...Look it up 4) Is a FULL YEAR of rigorous academic testing and standards with a thesis

Comment #33 Posted By: ColumbiaMS2009 07/29/08

Anonymous

ColumbiaMS2009: Maybe we continue to have this debate because: 1) All Ivy League schools are not created equal, and all Ivy programs are not created equal. Sure, there is a certain prestige that comes with an Ivy degree, but it is not a guarantee of anything. Anyone who has gone to school or worked with Ivy grads can vouch that the quality runs the spectrum from dolt to genius (just like any other cross-section of the population). I can say this as an Ivy grad (Penn). 2) Relying on the program's own press releases to support the quality of the program is obviously ridiculous, but do us all a favor and post a link to this “literature” so we can enjoy the prose. (Sorry, I didn’t feel like perusing the propaganda.) NYU has some pretty flowery descriptions of the advantages of their program, too. It’s all propaganda, as well, but they do have $11 million dollars in recent endowment gifts to both back up the claim and improve the program in the future. 3) The decision to waive test requirements for applicants makes this claim dubious, as well. Sounds to me like Columbia is tired of missing out on some quality candidates to NYU and decided to join them in their own game. Wonder when part-time options will be announced? 4) A full year in the Columbia program is still less classroom time than the NYU program. Perhaps the best evidence that there are no guarantees about the quality of the program, though, is your willingness to cut and paste your post (spelling errors and all) right back into the debate, as if repeating your faulty arguments would somehow convince everyone of your position. Maybe you should add more CAPS next time? Attention to detail (or the ability to craft a solid and coherent argument) apparently is not part of Columbia’s “MOST selective, rigorous admission process in the country.”

Comment #34 Posted By: Anonymous 07/29/08

Anonymous

NYU and Columbia have different programs. NYU offers a Masters in Real Estate with a choice of concentration...finance, development, etc.. Columbia offers a Masters in Real Estate Development. They aim to bring people together with backgrounds in law, business, construction and architecture. As all of these people are the ones sitting around the tables when a development is being planned, designed or built. That said...i think everyone needs to understand that someone with a BS in construction management could be sitting next to a business major from Harvard in this program. Two completely different backgrounds coming together to learn from each other. Not stupid contractor sitting next to Ivy genius! You people need to get over yourselves!

Comment #35 Posted By: Anonymous 08/01/08

JRock

Who cares about all this fighting? Both of the NY schools don't even have tests to get in!!! The USC MRED is clearly better than both NYU and Columbia.

Comment #36 Posted By: JRock 08/01/08

Anonymous

The top 3 programs are MIT, Cornell and USC in that order. It's a long drop off from USC to Columbia, a long drop from Columbia to NYU and a long drop from NYU to everyone else. The only reason NYU and Columbia are even featured here is because this is a NY based site.

Comment #37 Posted By: Anonymous 08/03/08

Anonymous

I don't think that's a fair comment, though it all depends on what metrics you're using to measure these programs. NYU is the oldest of the real-estate focused masters programs and the largest. Columbia was one of the first to offer a development focused curriculum. Alumni and instructors from both are among the clear leaders in the field. They clearly belong in the discussion. For professional programs such as this, I think metrics like alumni success (job placement, salary) and alumni giving would be more helpful than GMAT scores and undergrad GPAs. I would rather know how strong these programs are at placing students in top firms at top salaries, and for seeing how well students appreciate their education as indicated by their willingness to support the programs after graduation. Not sure if there is a reliable measure of any of that, but it would be helpful. What kinds of firms did students at MIT, Cornell, USC come from before going to school? What kinds of firms are they working at upon graduation? I can't imagine it is a long drop off from the MIT/Cornell/USC list to the Columbia and NYU lists, and suspect it might in fact be the other way around.

Comment #38 Posted By: Anonymous 08/04/08

Anonymous

Last year NYUs program was given a 1 million endowment for a successful alum, this year it was 11 million. This is a metric of the program's past success and future development.

Comment #39 Posted By: Anonymous 08/05/08

Anonymous

#37 & #38 = Blatant and redundant Phear_Me Trolling. We get it, we really really get it now, your alma and future alma are the best! Go USC and MIT! Feel better, good.

Comment #40 Posted By: Anonymous 08/05/08

Anonymous

I dont know whats more pathetic -- someone supposedly trolling these boards all the time or someone so obsessed that they claim to be psychic enough to know another persons posts in an anonymous forum. Im here try to get information and anytime someone says something this guy doesn't like he throws a tantrum so both you and "phearme" need to shutup already. #21, #27, #29, #41

Comment #41 Posted By: Anonymous 08/06/08

Anonymous

Does anyone have any real, official, salary data for the Columbia and NYU programs? As far as I can see neither school supply's this information. A link to that info would be really helpful since I am hopefully deciding for class of 2010. thx

Comment #42 Posted By: Anonymous 08/06/08

Anonymous

What's wrong with getting a Master's "Certificate" in real estate from NYU? If a Cerfificate student missed getting into the master's program by a hair, what's wrong with being able to put a certificate credential from NYU on your resume?

Comment #43 Posted By: Anonymous 08/08/08

Anonymous

Not much considering that it takes 'near perfect' gpa to matriculate to the next level at NYU, so I would say the Master's cert is still a pretty substantial credential especially in the NYC RE industry.

Comment #44 Posted By: Anonymous 08/10/08

Anonymous

By matriculate to the next level you mean get into the Master's program?

Comment #45 Posted By: Anonymous 08/11/08

Anonymous

The NYU orogram is a 2 year master's, as opposed to MIT's and Columbia's 1 year, and a Master's Certificate given its time involvement would be a boost to your real estate pedigree from a resume and applied knowledge perspective.

Comment #46 Posted By: Anonymous 08/13/08

Anonymous

Thanks for the info.

Comment #47 Posted By: Anonymous 08/15/08

Anonymous

sad

Comment #48 Posted By: Anonymous 08/20/08

KidIvy

IF IT IS NOT CRYSTAL CLEAR FOR EVERYONE ON THIS PEDESTRIAN BOARD, LET ME S-P-E-L-L it out so you can all understand:Columbia MSRED = ELITE IVY; Members of the coveted washedMIT, NYU, USC, Clemson, Baruch = u-n-w-a-s-h-e-dAnd your employers and other ivy holders will *always* look down their noses at you individually and collectively.

Comment #49 Posted By: KidIvy 08/21/08

Anonymous

Columbia Ivy status > MIT prestige? Are you kidding? MIT was the first university in the united states to grant an architecture degree and it was the first university in the world to offer a Master of Real Estate Development. MIT is the innovator among a throng of imitators. Additionally, to attack the main thrust of your argument: MIT, as an institution, is ranked over Columbia. Columbia may be an Ivy and is a wonderful program offering a great MSRED degree, but no one from Columbia is looking down their noses at an MIT grad. If they are, they won't be doing it very long as the MIT grad is likely to be their boss. Furthermore, I'm not so certain that Columbia ought to be looking down it's nose at USC or NYU either as I suspect there is relative parody amongst the top programs.

Comment #50 Posted By: Anonymous 08/23/08

kidivy

Fact : MIT is a technical trade school spitting out legions of minion number crunchers to do the bidding of ivy educated entrepreneurs.

Comment #51 Posted By: kidivy 08/23/08

Anonymous

kidivy = at least one good reason not to go to Columbia.

Comment #52 Posted By: Anonymous 08/24/08

ivy-vay

Hey kidivy - you have a 1 year masters degree from Columbia's program that refuses to let its MBA/business students take classes at because it is too weak. I would not be looking down at the other programs when yours is called the red headed step child program of all its schools.

Comment #53 Posted By: ivy-vay 08/25/08

Anonymous

Ditto on the red headed step child comment. Most of the programs at Columbia look down on the MSRED there because, in contrast to the very high standards set for admission into the rest of the university, the MSRED program has no rational basis for admission. No test scores. GPA scores are average at best. And a paltry 500 word essay. The irony between all of the infighting on this board is that the best real estate program in New York probably isn't Columbia or NYU, but rather it is most likely Cornell.

Comment #54 Posted By: Anonymous 08/26/08

kidivy

You forget dearest plebes that Columbia admission selection committee for MSRED is the same for the other gen ad programs and heavily scrutinizes each and every application to a very high degree, in a concerted effort to protect the Columbia brand. We all know that test scores are a paltry, one dimentional metric to view student quality which is why Columbia uses a wholistic higher quality/experience approach to judging its applicants. #53, 54: Nice set up and punt posting - love it when ppl post and then answer their own questions under a different name. Very classy, indeed. Indicative of your 'unwashed self' trolling for a wanna be ivy like Cornell. Sorry you are not in the club, so hold your "Ditto", plebe.

Comment #55 Posted By: kidivy 08/26/08

Anonymous

Last I checked, Cornell was in the Ivy League.

Comment #56 Posted By: Anonymous 08/27/08

Anonymous

The ivy league is nothing more that a tired academically irrelevant vestige sporting league designation. Get over it and yourselves already gheez.

Comment #57 Posted By: Anonymous 08/29/08

tic tock

Looks like Columbia is winning this debate.

Comment #58 Posted By: tic tock 08/29/08

Re_ea_lity_Check

The Columbia vs. NYU debate is over. Columbia is the hands down inferior program, for the panolpy of reason listed below (of which NYU is the categorical opposite): - no GMAT requirement - low gpa acceptance - one essay - one year program with few credits relative to others - paucity of finance education - inability for students to cross register with the business program for electives, and vice versa - reputation amongst Columbia students as "the red headed step child of all the programs" - theory, not pragmatic, focused classes - small, if not relatively impotent, alumni base It is a sad day when the only redeeming quality a program can hang its competitive hat on is the fact that its underlying university is part of the ivy league.

Comment #59 Posted By: Re_ea_lity_Check 08/29/08

Anonymous

Real Deal - Please erase Kid Ivy's elitist meritless slurs from this board since it clearly violates your boards terms of posting. Thanks. All of New York City

Comment #60 Posted By: Anonymous 08/29/08

TruthandJustice

Wow, this thread is forever flaming. Def most entertaining on the entire board. Let the fight for truth reign on!!

Comment #61 Posted By: TruthandJustice 08/30/08

Anonymous

Phear_Me and his alter ego trolls need to abandon their internet wide NYU smear campaign and focus on their real problems - finding a job with a subpar pedigree in a lackluster job market. Here at RD, we love how the trolls take redundant pot shots in response to substantive criticism of their real estate programs. PS. We see they shut down the Cyburbia thread after the NYU bashing trolls (Read: Phear_Me) impersonated Heath Binder (former NYU President) to slander the school. Stop the trolling people, and focus on your own life and/or job search.

Comment #62 Posted By: Anonymous 09/04/08

Anonymous

Holy crap, this idiot above me is everywhere! I'll repost my earlier response. As a cyburbia member I can tell you that the reason the development thread there was shut down (and it is now reopened) is because of all of the NYU trolls like you. That was about the only good place to get help and solid information and so many idiot NYU posters came onto the site and just kept on rambling on with their agenda. I found this site looking for a new source to ask my questions and I can't believe it's the same crud all over again.

Comment #63 Posted By: Anonymous 09/05/08

Anonymous

Holy doppio crap. #63! Why the non sequitur posting? How is #62 a troll when this entire board is filled with Columbia/MIT trumpeting insidious drivel? If you are going to apportion blame, at least be reasonable. Just my $02. Ok, maybe $04.

Comment #64 Posted By: Anonymous 09/05/08

Columbia2006

Anyone see over on Cyburbia how all of the people attacking fear_me turned out to be the same NYU people using sock puppet accounts? All of them were NYU trolls! That explains why everyone makes fun of NYU admission standards - because they let in people who act like thirteen year olds. Columbia wins!

Comment #65 Posted By: Columbia2006 09/10/08

Anonymous

Why don't the numbers on these posting track? Were postings deleted?

Comment #66 Posted By: Anonymous 09/12/08

Anonymous

For what it's worth I was told from an X Pat this weekend that the MIT program is huge in China. I don't know how much that applies to people here but it's another data point. Personally, I'd choose MIT or Columbia or Cornell just because this degree isn't very well known. USC and NYU don't carry the same "overall" reputation as the Ivies, even though they are both very good schools.

Comment #67 Posted By: Anonymous 09/13/08

RealDealTalk

Regardless of the in fighting that continues here at Real Deal, today's unprecedented turmoil in the financial market's occasioned by the implosion of Lehman Brothers further underscores the DIRE NEED for solidly educated professionals in real estate finance, and the overall industry. I believe the equity of any reputable Master's in Real Estate holder has gone through the roof given this meltdown caused by a utter paucity of knowledge and discipline in real estate fundamentals

Comment #68 Posted By: RealDealTalk 09/16/08

Anonymous

RealDealTalk has a good point. It would be great to see all of the real estate programs use this as a marketing tool.

Comment #69 Posted By: Anonymous 09/17/08

Anonymous

I agree a MS in Real Estate has become a very powerful degree, period.

Comment #70 Posted By: Anonymous 09/27/08

Dubai_MSRED_Seeking

What kind of opportunities exist for Master's of Real Estate holders in a job market like Dubai (UAE)? What advice would you have for candidates with a MSRE(D) wanting to enter that job market in the areas of: a) Real Estate Development; b) Capital Markets; and c) Acquisitions. Finally, what skill sets are employers in Dubai looking for from their candidates? Any info would be truly appreciated.

Comment #71 Posted By: Dubai_MSRED_Seeking 09/30/08

Anonymous

This guy seems to have a lot of enemies. He is mentioned with disdain on like every real estate board I visited including a law school discussion forum.

Comment #72 Posted By: Anonymous 10/02/08

Anonymous

Cyburbia wanted any excuse to end that thread and they took it. It's a planning site, not a developer site, and people got tired of watching half of a group defend phear_me and another half of the group attack him. Personally, as far as I'm concerned, phear_me is the only person in that thread who knew what he was talking about. It turned out that ALL of those attacks against him came from 3, count them 3, people using multiple handles. But, just like in this election, the mob that screams the loudest usually win.

Comment #73 Posted By: Anonymous 10/05/08

What am I missing?

So, what is it exactly that this phearme guy did to make him so reviled? When I look at the old threads from cyburbia and from there to business week it seems like all he did was answer questions. And, to be frank, he really seemed to know what he was talking about. I'm just wondering what it is I'm missing that makes this guy such an R'tard. No name calling and no bashing and no nothing. Just seemed to give a lot of advice to people who asked him specifically there questions. I feel left out of the loop!

Comment #74 Posted By: What am I missing? 10/09/08

Anonymous

"uniformaly despised"? What, did he have better spelling than you or something? Phear_Me is a standup guy. His body of research is the only stuff out there and it's just the same NYU kids attacking him over and over which is stupid because he gave NYU a good ranking just not a great one. I like the other posters comments about coming together to get these degrees known instead of one person obsessively posting about Phear_Me. How can we work together to make it clear to businesses that specialized real estate training is more valuable for RE companies than the MBA?

Comment #75 Posted By: Anonymous 10/10/08

Anonymous

Great post above. I have read these mind freezing postings and wish Real Deal could give me 10 minutes of my life back! No, really. Who cares about this Phear_Me, some agenda MIT/USC trolling whack, and the apparent throngs who have the time to "despise" him! Our focus should be on getting the Real Estate Master's Degree the global recognition that it deserves and requires to compete in what seems to be an MBA world. How often do you same Master's in Real Estate and get a blank stare: "Is it like an MBA?" As mentioned, the financial world (literally) is melting because of bad investments tied to real estate based assets. If this is not an implicit cry for specialized professionals with higher degrees in real estate, then I don't know what is. When the fallout from bad real estate investments decimates generational powerhouses (and their stockholders) like GE, Boeing and GM, the proverbial writing is on the wall. These degrees and graduates are in great need. Articles like the above get the word out but it is not enough. THIS is the topic that should dominate this forum, not lame diatribes about some misanthropic internet whack Phear_Me.

Comment #76 Posted By: Anonymous 10/10/08

MIT/Columbia MSRED wannabeee

Wanted to weigh in here 1. Phear_Me is pretty much liked and appreciated by most. As has been mentioned a trillion times already it's the same one person who got owned by phear in the forums that's taking it out here anonymously. 2. The MSRED degree, when compared with the MBA, has all of the same core course content but seems to replace the soft communication type of classes with RE specific classes. Most of the programs have GMAT scores equal to or just under the top MBA programs. Companies get a better deal with MSRED candidates but how can we get that information out there into the corporate community?

Comment #77 Posted By: MIT/Columbia MSRED wannabeee 10/10/08

ED/Penn

I have a MBA and disagree with the poster MIT/Columbia wannabeeeee. We don't get soft communication classes (Read: Worthless throw aways), but a myriad of classses and practical workshops which make us into effective business leaders of tomorrow. From what I gather, MSRED is a very narrow development process based degree lacking the breadth of business knowledge provided by an MBA. Development process is the kind of acumen best learned on the job. Real Estate at its base is just finance which I got spades at my school.

Comment #78 Posted By: ED/Penn 10/10/08

MIT/Columbia MSRED wannabeee

My point isn't that the MBA was worthless so Im sorry if it came across that way. My point was that finance in a business school is focused on a bunch of things not specific to real estate. Mergers and Acquisitions and CapM and all of that good stuff isn't relevant to real estate. But a focused curriculum has a huge advantage over general theory meant to span private equity and IB and everything else.

Comment #79 Posted By: MIT/Columbia MSRED wannabeee 10/12/08

Anonymous

How are the Capital Markets not relevant to real estate? The prior statement by MIT/Columbia underscores how imperative a deep finance education is to any real estate practioner. Q: Aren't the capital markets literally 'shut down' now exactly because of real estate? Even a modicum of finance education would allow for that connection. MIT and Columbia need to screen a lot harder.

Comment #80 Posted By: Anonymous 10/17/08

Anonymous

The previous poster's comment was that MBA finance covers a lot of material and calculations that aren't applicable to real estate development/finance. And so a real estate program allows you to focus on going deeper for those topics that are relevant to development/finance instead of spreading you thin across VC, IB, PE, Hedge Fund, RE, Marketing etc.

Comment #81 Posted By: Anonymous 10/19/08

Eponymous

It looks like "MIT/Columbia MSRED Wannabeee" just has no clue about the true holistic nature of real estate. Stop spinning.

Comment #82 Posted By: Eponymous 10/21/08

Anonymous

Ivies will always rule the NYC job market. I think Columbia is the best !well known all around the world , having graduated billionaires and presidents. USC is a joke , doesnt have the global brand name

Comment #83 Posted By: Anonymous 10/31/08

Anonymous

This thread keeps going in circles. You say Columbia MSRE program is the best, then someone else chimes in that Columbia has: - no GMAT requirement - low gpa acceptance - one essay - one year program with few credits relative to other competitive programs - paucity of finance education - inability for students to cross register with the business program for electives, and vice versa - reputation amongst Columbia students as "the red headed step child of all the programs" - theory, not pragmatic, focused classes - small, if not relatively impotent, alumni base compared to MIT and NYU. This is getting so tired already. Post something truly substantive or don't waste our collective time.

Comment #84 Posted By: Anonymous 10/31/08

ROFL

Ha ha ha ha. Amen brother!

Comment #85 Posted By: ROFL 11/05/08

Can_I_Get_a_Witness

This really thread never ends...You would think people would be unifying under the common flag of real estate master's degree than all this divisive Internet flame baiting. It really is an impressive specialized degree and it is up to these degree holders to get the words out to the "big name" employers and clients just how relevant this knowledge is in these changing times. An MBA and MSRE should not be going head to head in the job market as the MSRE offers an entirely different skill set, one that is decidedly absent in the MBA program.

Comment #86 Posted By: Can_I_Get_a_Witness 11/07/08

Anonymous

Really REALY uncool of you to post someone's personal information on an anonymous forum. I hope real deal deletes it.

Comment #87 Posted By: Anonymous 11/16/08

Anonymous

Really REALLY great spelling genius... FYI, he's given his information out freely in the other forums as a means of networking. Names are posted on student bios on MSRED websites, so not exactly what you'd call anonymous is it?

Comment #88 Posted By: Anonymous 11/17/08

AllsWellsThatEndsWells

To 87, 88: phear me is so yesterday's cyber terrorist. Get over it people and move on with your pretty little lives!!!

Comment #89 Posted By: AllsWellsThatEndsWells 11/19/08

phear the truth?

cyber terrorist? phear_me is the only person who knew what was going on and since his cyber stalker got banned from cyburbia, businessweek et all it's the same guy, MONTHS LATER, still on these boards obsessively posting about the guy. Unbelievable how low and pathetic some of you people are. A perfect example of why NYU received a low ranking in the first place. It is insane how you people are constantly attacking someone who: A) Was completely correct B) Did nothing but freely help people C) Hasn't posted on the topic for months The partys over you losers. You lost. phear owned you. Don't gouge the guy behind his back on some no name blog because you can't handle him face to face. party on fear!

Comment #90 Posted By: phear the truth? 11/20/08

Anonymous

Can someone who is currently attending Columbia or USC real estate programs respond? How many apply to each school? In coming class size of each school? What are the average gpa for admitted to each school?

Comment #91 Posted By: Anonymous 11/25/08

Dude, that info is so cursory. Just google the respective schools BB's. How lazy.

Comment #92 Posted By: 11/25/08

Anonymous

Just because this forum is anonymous doesn't mean you need to be an ass...if you have a helpful answer for the guy, why don't you just tell him where to go?

Comment #93 Posted By: Anonymous 11/25/08

Whatev

Because I went to Columbia and noone helped me get into their MSRE program.

Comment #94 Posted By: Whatev 11/27/08

Anonymous

wow...that guy is a huge douchebag...a good example of why MSRE students will never have the prestige of MBA's

Comment #95 Posted By: Anonymous 11/28/08

Anonymous

Newsflash, MBAs do not have real prestige on a relative basis as their programs cannot compare to the true academic rigor of any solid JD program or MD program. Why even fool yourself? The MBA is a networking degree with some soft science classes and some perfuntory finance classes.

Comment #96 Posted By: Anonymous 11/28/08

Anonymous

I would agree with that. That is evidenced in the sad but true anecdote of President George W. Bush who applied for admission to the University of Texas law school where he was summarily rejected, only to be admitted into Harvard Business School the following year. The degrees, student quality and their required mental horsepower are completely different.

Comment #97 Posted By: Anonymous 11/28/08

Anonymous

I wouldn't argue that the academic rigor of a JD or MD is more than that of an MBA. But as far as application in real estate development, an MBA is more relevant. My argument is more in terms of the MBA vs MSRE/MRED...the real estate specific degree is a trend that will fade and those left with it's limited scope education will wish they had gone with the more adaptable, valuable MBA. Young MRED hopefuls will almost certainly disagree, but it is the veteran professionals in the industry whose opinion is most valid, and 99% would agree that an MBA is much more valuable of an education, while the real estate knowledge should be left for learning on the job.

Comment #98 Posted By: Anonymous 11/28/08

Anonymous

A typical MSRED would not have the education to say work in the capital markets or private equity because they simply did not get that level of finance education which would be integral to the job. However, I don't think one can argue that a person graduating with a Master's of Science in Finance and Investments focused on the real estate asset class would be at a disadvantage to an MBA in those types of positions (if it was RE CM/RE PE) as they are were educated in the very fundamentals that move and define those markets. In fact, an MBA who did not concentrate in Finance would not be as prepared for those jobs - lay prestige for the MBA aside.

Comment #99 Posted By: Anonymous 11/29/08

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