The Closing: Winston Fisher

Winston Fisher’s first job at his family’s firm was in the mailroom. Fisher, who was around 12 years old when hired as a messenger, would finish his days playing in his dad’s office while the elder Fisher worked late. He has since worked his way up the ranks to become a partner leading the firm.

Fisher is part of the third generation of the Fisher Brothers dynasty that made its name in the Midtown New York office market. But the company has diversified since Martin Fisher founded it in 1915 as a construction firm.

Today, Fisher Brothers owns and develops office buildings and residential properties in New York and Washington, D.C. Trophies include 605 Third Avenue and Park Avenue Plaza.

The company is building Wynhouse, its first Miami apartment building, in Wynwood, a neighborhood at the center of explosive growth. Elsewhere, Fisher Brothers has developed Area 15, an entertainment/retail complex in Las Vegas, where Universal Studios is working on a horror attraction. The strip of land includes 20 acres where the firm plans 1,400 apartments and another 20 acres whose future is undecided. The firm also has an Area 15 in the works in Orlando.

The Real Deal sat down with Fisher to discuss growing up in the business, the metaverse and being thrust into leadership following family tragedies.

This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity. 

Born: January 14, 1973
Hometown: New York City
Lives: New York City
Family: Engaged, two children with his ex-wife 

What were you like as a kid?

I was a difficult child. Very headstrong, a little wild. When I wanted to achieve something, I could achieve something. I definitely have to apologize to my parents for being a little bit of a hellion. The serious thing is I had a good childhood, but also I found school hard. I have a daughter who thrives in school. She’s one of those kids, right? I was not one of those kids. I had the intellect, but whether [because of] ADHD or whatever, I found sitting still and concentration hard.

When did it become clear that you would work for the family business?

My father was always very clear about a few things. One, ‘I don’t really care what you do. But I ask that you do it well.’ And so he always said, ‘Look, you can be a starving artist, and I’ll buy you paint, as long as you are committing yourself to that.’ The other thing he said is, ‘Fisher Brothers is a privilege, not a right, so you have to earn being here.’ I wasn’t sure what I was going to do. I worked in investment banking. By the time I graduated college I had some sense that Fisher Brothers would be my trajectory, but still having to prove myself.

What did you study at Syracuse?

Philosophy.

Do you use that in your job?

Every single day. I think liberal arts for undergraduates is probably one of the most important educational training tools. It’s critical thinking. I’m obviously not quoting Socrates or Aristotle in meetings, but there is a lot of ethics that comes up. I credit a lot of my success or ability to be strategic to liberal arts. The liberal arts teaches you to think, and then you learn your craft.

“I’m not one of the fittest men anymore. I probably used to be.”

And you can learn a craft, right? I don’t mean to cheapen real estate, but it’s just a craft. Apprenticeship can get you there. 

I bring 12 to 15 students from Syracuse down every year for a one-week seminar on how to have a successful career in business with a background in the arts. I have a deep concern about the attacks on humanities and liberal arts education for not being valuable. We’re trying to create thinkers and problem solvers and leaders, and that is a liberal arts background.

Being born into this kind of money and influence, do you feel like you lose perspective?

I am very, very cognizant, and I tell my kids, you’re just born blessed. That doesn’t mean you don’t have to work hard. That doesn’t mean that you don’t have challenges or real stresses. Both my mom and dad, their value system was good. There was privilege. But my father said, “Everybody at Fisher Brothers deserves respect. Everybody who works for you deserves respect. They don’t have to be your friend. But they’re putting in a hard day’s worth of work.” And so everybody’s valuable, right? My mom [came from a] really solid, middle-class family. I don’t know if I ever lost perspective. Everybody deserves a fair shot to succeed. We don’t necessarily get those in society today.

What inspired your obsession with health and fitness? Do you consider yourself the fittest man in real estate?

Unfortunately, I’ve had a few injuries. I’m not one of the fittest men anymore. I probably used to be. I’m motivated by challenges. I always say, “Do something that scares you.” Being uncomfortable is OK. It’s actually kind of exciting. I did seven marathons in seven days on seven continents. I biked cross-country. I’ve done Ironmans. I’ve also run with the bulls. It’s just the way I’m wired. I don’t know how else to live an interesting life. Your life is basically meaningful to you and the few close people around you. Try to leave a positive impact and enjoy as much as you can in what is a pretty short time.

Running with the bulls — what was that like?

I always say don’t run with anybody you know because you’ll just knock them out of the way. It’s instinctual when bulls are coming at you. It’s fun.

You turned 50 this year. What has changed about your approach to fitness? And to life?

With fitness, you start to realize that some type of moderation is probably a good thing. My approach to life, my principles are the same. Dignity and hard work and putting yourself out there, appreciating the value of people, and I think I’ve done a good job with that.

Your uncle died in 2003, and that thrust you into a leadership position at Fisher Brothers sooner than expected.

That was a bad year for us. My brother died. Steven Fisher’s son died. My aunt died. My general counsel died. My uncle, one of the pillars of Fisher Brothers, suddenly passed away in a plane crash. So it catapulted me into a different leadership position. My importance became more, I had to step into a role. And then my father passed away in 2006. There was a pretty serious acceleration of my responsibilities. It was just a much different company. … Then we went through the financial crisis. So there was a trial by fire.

Your cousin Steven also died, earlier this year. How has grief shaped you?

I’ve unfortunately been on the side of tragic death where it comes unexpectedly. Age gives you a perspective. The wound doesn’t close; it dulls. I had a little brother who passed away. I miss him every day. I miss my dad. I had a grandmother, she lost two children, and her strength to keep going and be a pillar of inspiration was … I cannot imagine. I don’t know if I could have done that. I’ve also seen people crumble from it. Grief can really consume. So you have to carry it with you and also give it its appropriate respect and at the same time, not let it consume you.

I’ve seen reports about your conflicts with your brother Hadley. What is your relationship with him like now?

My relationship [with Hadley] is good. You know, when people pass away, sometimes that can create problems. … My brother’s a really cool guy, very funny. He has a wonderful wife and an incredible son, Michael. I have a wonderful little sister, Alex, she’s got two children. So it’s … it’s good.

How has fatherhood changed you?

They’re my greatest joy. I love being a dad. They’re now 17 and 19. I get to enjoy them as young adults. It’s deeply meaningful to me to be a dad.

Do you think they’ll join the family business?

I guess I have my father’s philosophy of it’s not guaranteed. You know, this is a business. There’s people who rely on this place. So you’ve got to be smart, you’ve got to be committed, you’ve got to work hard. My kids, it would be meaningful to work with them, but I want them to be happy. You gotta love what you do.

What are you like as a boss?

I think that I am somebody who is fair, somebody who’s fun to work with. Even if I get upset with something, I never attack the person. I might be upset about a process or an outcome, but I don’t go after people. I’d say that I’m the most critical with my direct reports. I push people. I dream big, and people have to help see that dream.

What is the best advice you’ve ever gotten?

Really about emails. Your voice is heard, you don’t need to be inflammatory. People think they have to overwrite stuff in an email. I was pulled aside a long time ago [and told] you’re doing yourself a disservice with the way you speak. You can be measured and articulate and get the same point across.

“Grief can really consume. So you have to carry it with you and also give it its appropriate respect and at the same time, not let it consume you.”

What keeps you up at night?

I worry about climate change, the state of politics. I wish there was a healthier discourse in this country. There’s a winner-take-all mentality, which is not how our democracy thrives or functions. Climate change, I just don’t understand the hostility to [addressing] it. Where are we going? I have kids. What does it mean for their future?

What excites you most about development?

I love creation. How do people consume this space, the creative energy, what’s the vibe? Area 15 is all about experience, all about memory and consumption. I get very excited today about the intersection of digital and physical. The metaverse is real. The metaverse is here. And it’s growing. God knows what quantum computing will do.

Fisher Brothers also has its first ground-up project in Wynwood. You recently secured financing for it. What are your conversations with lenders like right now?

Real estate — you can’t help but be nervous. There are pockets of opportunity. We’re building. The markets are spooked. CMBS for office is pretty nonexistent today. There’s money. I don’t think there’ll be a savings and loans crisis. The banks are better positioned, and there’s probably more of an appetite to work with the borrowers. But you’ve got some dislocation, and that’s gonna continue and hang over the debt markets.

What does the capital stack look like with your newer projects?

First-mortgage debt today is 50, 55 percent. That hasn’t changed. There’s still a lot of private capital around trying to figure out what to do. We’re lending strategically — I like being active when things are bad. Actually, I think it’s the best time.

We do need to get the office CMBS market functioning again, I think that is a serious issue. [With office] we have to separate the haves and have-nots. That’s starting to happen.

What policy do you support?

I love the CHIPS Act. I thought that was amazing, what Biden did. I don’t know if he gets the credit [he should]. In upstate New York, Gov. Hochul got a $100 billion investment into the Syracuse region. That’s huge. That’s Biden. The infrastructure bill, it takes years for that stuff to sort of show up, but thank God. We needed it.

Those policies really excite me — to help us be part of the future of growth, and at the same time have strategic investment. New York needs to be more competitive in attracting and retaining jobs, because people can be more mobile today. It’s a fight. We’re competing with Texas, we’re competing with Florida. New York, we should be a leader in AI. Leaning into the stuff of the future is so important. And recognizing your bread and butter.